Rogue specialization

Subtlety Rogue in WoW Forever

Stealth, bleeds and control.

  • Your role: Melee damage
  • Advice for every level to 60
  • Class notes checked

Your character

Show advice for
Your gear Use my character
Updating…

Choose the level you are playing now. The playbook and gear rankings update to match.

Level 35 · Damage in a group

How to play dungeons at level 35

Your combat loop

Press the first one that is ready.

Subtlety’s own loop, from level 10. Before that every Rogue plays the same loop.

Own loop from: Combat level 10Subtlety level 10Assassination level 40

Use Instant Poison on the main hand, Deadly Poison on the off hand. It does 4% more than Instant Poison on both weapons. About even (within 3%): Deadly Poison on the main hand, Instant Poison on the off hand; or Deadly Poison on both weapons.

  1. Shank Rank 1 Every 10 sec

    Use it whenever it is ready, every 10 sec.

    2% of your damage
  2. Ghostly Strike Every 20 sec

    Use it whenever it is ready, every 20 sec.

    5% of your damage
  3. Garrote Rank 3 Keep on target · 18 sec

    Keep it on the target; it lasts 18 sec.

    17% of your damage
  4. Slice and Dice Rank 1 Keep up · combo points

    Keep it up with combo points.

    no damage of its own
  5. Rupture Rank 2 Keep up · combo points

    Keep it up with combo points.

    6% of your damage
  6. Hemorrhage Filler

    Spend the rest of your energy on it.

    12% of your damage
  7. Instant Poison II Main hand

    Keep it on your main-hand weapon.

    3% of your damage
  8. Deadly Poison Off hand

    Keep it on your off-hand weapon.

    6% of your damage
  9. Auto attack All the time

    Your weapon swings on its own. Stay in melee range.

    49% of your damage

The first 30 seconds

When to press each one from the pull. The blue line under a press is the global cooldown (1 sec) or cast it holds: nothing else on the global cooldown can go until it ends, so of two that are ready together the higher one goes first.

All the time
Instant Poison IIDeadly PoisonAuto attack

How MaxDPS works this out

Talents at level 35

26 points at level 35: the first at level 10, then one every level.

The MaxDPS build at this level, in the game’s talent frame. Click a talent to learn it and right click to unlearn it, as in the game.

Talents
Unspent Talents
Point order: when each point goes in
  1. Opportunity 5/5 · levels 10–14 +2.9% damage
  2. Improved Ambush 3/3 · levels 15–17 not counted here
  3. Dirty Deeds 2/2 · levels 18–19 +3.6% damage
  4. Serrated Blades 3/3 · levels 20–22 +3.3% damage
  5. Premeditation 1/1 · level 23 not counted here
  6. Initiative 1/3 · level 24 +0.5% damage
  7. Ghostly Strike 1/1 · level 25 +16.6% damage
  8. Elusiveness 2/2 · levels 26–27 not counted here
  9. Camouflage 2/3 · levels 28–29 not counted here
  10. Preparation 1/1 · level 30 not counted here
  11. Heightened Senses 2/2 · levels 31–32 not counted here
  12. Setup 1/3 · level 33 not counted here
  13. Hemorrhage 1/1 · level 34 not counted here
  14. Boot Knife 1/5 · level 35 +1.4% damage

Every Rogue talent

Preliminary item rankings · Dungeons

Subtlety Rogue gear rankings

Opening strikes, Hemorrhage and bleeds · Level 35 · Calculated defaults

Hunt list
Show gear for

Head 109 items · Updating…

Where it comes from
Auction prices from

Materials: . Each reagent counts at the lower of a vendor’s price and its lowest buyout.

Key stats show the stats behind the three largest score contributions, as the game tooltip states them; open an item’s details for every value and source.

Head items with imported stats, weighted scores and acquisition sources.
Rank Item Score (pts) Where to get it Actions
1 in this filtered list
Expert Goldminer's Helmet Leather · iLvl 40 · Req. 35 · Other drop Key stats: 1.1% Expertise7 Agility8 Stamina
17.36
Digmaster ShovelphlangeNPC drop · 100% · Badlands
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Expertise: 11 rating (1.1%) × 0.7484 = 8.23 pts
  • Agility: 7 × 1 = 7.00 pts
  • Stamina: 8 × 0.2212 = 1.77 pts
  • Armor: 99 × 0.0036 = 0.36 pts

Rare

Source

Digmaster ShovelphlangeNPC drop · 100% · Badlands
2 in this filtered list
Hawkeye's Helm Leather · iLvl 40 · Req. 35 · Other drop Key stats: 11 Agility4 Strength8 Stamina
15.52
Shadowshard SmasherNPC drop · 1.2% · Desolace
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 11 × 1 = 11.00 pts
  • Strength: 4 × 0.6077 = 2.43 pts
  • Stamina: 8 × 0.2212 = 1.77 pts
  • Armor: 90 × 0.0036 = 0.32 pts

Uncommon

49 sources

Shadowshard SmasherNPC drop · 1.2% · Desolace
Skeletal SummonerNPC drop · 0.2% · Razorfen Downs
Rock BorerNPC drop · 0.2% · Desolace
Maraudine MarauderNPC drop · 0.2% · Desolace
Dread RipperNPC drop · 0.1% · Desolace
Freezing SpiritNPC drop · 0.1% · Razorfen Downs
Boneflayer GhoulNPC drop · 0.1% · Razorfen Downs
Thorn Eater GhoulNPC drop · <0.1% · Razorfen Downs
Ambereye BasiliskNPC drop · <0.1% · Desolace
All 49 sources
3 in this filtered list
Brawler's Leather Helm Leather · iLvl 30 · Req. 25 · Dungeon drop Key stats: 10 Agility13 Stamina84 Armor
13.18
Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 10 × 1 = 10.00 pts
  • Stamina: 13 × 0.2212 = 2.88 pts
  • Armor: 84 × 0.0036 = 0.30 pts

Rare

17 sources

GelihastNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
RoogugNPC drop · <0.1% · Razorfen Kraul
Lorgus JettNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
Charlga RazorflankNPC drop · <0.1% · Razorfen Kraul
IronspineNPC drop · <0.1% · Scarlet Monastery
Aggem ThorncurseNPC drop · <0.1% · Razorfen Kraul
Aku'maiNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
Dextren WardNPC drop · <0.1% · Stormwind Stockade
All 17 sources
4 in this filtered list
Cloaked Hood Leather · iLvl 38 · Req. 33 · Other drop Key stats: 10 Agility10 Stamina86 Armor
12.52
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 10 × 1 = 10.00 pts
  • Stamina: 10 × 0.2212 = 2.21 pts
  • Armor: 86 × 0.0036 = 0.31 pts

Uncommon

Source

5 in this filtered list
Adventurer's Pith Helmet Leather · iLvl 37 · Req. 32 · Dungeon drop Key stats: 9 Agility14 Stamina94 Armor
12.44
Ancient TreasureObject loot · 0.1% · Uldaman
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 9 × 1 = 9.00 pts
  • Stamina: 14 × 0.2212 = 3.10 pts
  • Armor: 94 × 0.0036 = 0.34 pts

Rare

14 sources

Ancient TreasureObject loot · 0.1% · Uldaman
Shadowforge Relic HunterNPC drop · <0.1% · Uldaman
Shadowforge GeologistNPC drop · <0.1% · Uldaman
Shadowforge RuffianNPC drop · <0.1% · Badlands
Shadowforge DiggerNPC drop · <0.1%
Stonevault FlameweaverNPC drop · <0.1% · Uldaman
Stonevault RockchewerNPC drop · <0.1% · Uldaman
Stonevault MaulerNPC drop · <0.1% · Uldaman
Earthen SculptorNPC drop · <0.1% · Uldaman
Stonevault BrawlerNPC drop · <0.1% · Uldaman
All 14 sources
6 in this filtered list
Brawler's Leather Hood Leather · iLvl 25 · Req. 20 · Crafted Key stats: 8 Agility10 Stamina76 Armor
10.49
Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 8 × 1 = 8.00 pts
  • Stamina: 10 × 0.2212 = 2.21 pts
  • Armor: 76 × 0.0036 = 0.27 pts

Rare

Source

7 in this filtered list
Defender's Leather Helm Leather · iLvl 30 · Req. 25 · Dungeon drop Key stats: 12 Strength13 Stamina84 Armor
10.47
Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Strength: 12 × 0.6077 = 7.29 pts
  • Stamina: 13 × 0.2212 = 2.88 pts
  • Armor: 84 × 0.0036 = 0.30 pts

Rare

15 sources

Lorgus JettNPC drop · 0.3% · Blackfathom Deeps
Charlga RazorflankNPC drop · <0.1% · Razorfen Kraul
Aggem ThorncurseNPC drop · <0.1% · Razorfen Kraul
Bazil ThreddNPC drop · <0.1% · Stormwind Stockade
Aku'maiNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
Old Serra'kisNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
All 15 sources
8 in this filtered list
Spirit Hunter Headdress Leather · iLvl 37 · Req. 32* · Quest · Horde only Key stats: 10 Agility85 Armor
10.31
FrostmawQuest reward · Thunder Bluff

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 10 × 1 = 10.00 pts
  • Armor: 85 × 0.0036 = 0.31 pts

Uncommon

Source

FrostmawQuest reward · Thunder Bluff
9 in this filtered list
Humbert's Helm Leather · iLvl 30 · Req. 25 · Other drop Key stats: 7 Agility8 Stamina76 Armor
9.04
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 7 × 1 = 7.00 pts
  • Stamina: 8 × 0.2212 = 1.77 pts
  • Armor: 76 × 0.0036 = 0.27 pts

Uncommon

Source

10 in this filtered list
Tribal Worg Helm Leather · iLvl 34 · Req. 29 · Other drop Key stats: 8 Agility81 Armor
8.29
FenrosNPC drop · 32% · Duskwood
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 8 × 1 = 8.00 pts
  • Armor: 81 × 0.0036 = 0.29 pts

Uncommon

Source

FenrosNPC drop · 32% · Duskwood
11 in this filtered list
Cloudy Gustwoven Hood Leather · iLvl 35 · Req. 30 · Crafted Key stats: 9 Strength9 Stamina83 Armor
7.76
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Strength: 9 × 0.6077 = 5.47 pts
  • Stamina: 9 × 0.2212 = 1.99 pts
  • Armor: 83 × 0.0036 = 0.30 pts

Uncommon

Source

12 in this filtered list
Azure Gustwoven Hood Leather · iLvl 35 · Req. 30 · Crafted Key stats: 9 Strength9 Stamina83 Armor
7.76
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Strength: 9 × 0.6077 = 5.47 pts
  • Stamina: 9 × 0.2212 = 1.99 pts
  • Armor: 83 × 0.0036 = 0.30 pts

Uncommon

Source

13 in this filtered list
Defender's Leather Hood Leather · iLvl 25 · Req. 20 · Crafted Key stats: 8 Strength10 Stamina76 Armor
7.35
Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Strength: 8 × 0.6077 = 4.86 pts
  • Stamina: 10 × 0.2212 = 2.21 pts
  • Armor: 76 × 0.0036 = 0.27 pts

Rare

Source

14 in this filtered list
Hyena Hide Helm Leather · iLvl 36 · Req. 31 · Other drop Key stats: 10 Strength84 Armor82 Bonus armor
6.67
GigglerNPC drop · Desolace
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Strength: 10 × 0.6077 = 6.08 pts
  • Armor: 84 × 0.0036 = 0.30 pts
  • Bonus armor: 82 × 0.0035 = 0.29 pts

Uncommon

Source

GigglerNPC drop · Desolace
15 in this filtered list
Glyphed Helm Leather · iLvl 39 · Req. 34 · Other drop Key stats: 6 Agility88 Armor
6.32
Strong Iron LockboxContainer loot · 0.6%
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 6 × 1 = 6.00 pts
  • Armor: 88 × 0.0036 = 0.32 pts

Uncommon

115 sources

Strong Iron LockboxContainer loot · 0.6%
Champion of the DeepNPC drop · 0.5%
Hoard of the Black DragonflightContainer loot · 0.5%
Large Solid ChestObject loot · 0.4%
Large Iron Bound ChestObject loot · 0.3%
Risen SentryNPC drop · 0.2%
Stonevault Cave LurkerNPC drop · 0.2% · Uldaman
GlommusNPC drop · 0.1% · Alterac Mountains
All 115 sources
16 in this filtered list
Stromgarde Hood Cloth · iLvl 39 · Req. 34* · Quest · Alliance only Key stats: 0.5% Hit8 Stamina110 Bonus armor
6.14

Score breakdown

  • Hit: 5 rating (0.5%) × 0.766 = 3.83 pts
  • Stamina: 8 × 0.2212 = 1.77 pts
  • Bonus armor: 110 × 0.0035 = 0.39 pts
  • Armor: 42 × 0.0036 = 0.15 pts

Uncommon

Source

17 in this filtered list
Corpseshroud Cloth · iLvl 40 · Req. 35 · Other drop Key stats: 5 Agility47 Armor
5.17
Razorfen DownsZone loot
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Agility: 5 × 1 = 5.00 pts
  • Armor: 47 × 0.0036 = 0.17 pts

Rare

Source

Razorfen DownsZone loot
18 in this filtered list
Totemic Leather Helm Leather · iLvl 30 · Req. 25 · Dungeon drop Key stats: 13 Stamina84 Armor
3.18
Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Stamina: 13 × 0.2212 = 2.88 pts
  • Armor: 84 × 0.0036 = 0.30 pts

Rare

16 sources

GelihastNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
Lorgus JettNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
Old Serra'kisNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
Charlga RazorflankNPC drop · <0.1% · Razorfen Kraul
Fallen ChampionNPC drop · <0.1% · Scarlet Monastery
Aggem ThorncurseNPC drop · <0.1% · Razorfen Kraul
Aku'maiNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
Baron AquanisNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
All 16 sources
19 in this filtered list
Trapper's Leather Helm Leather · iLvl 30 · Req. 25 · Dungeon drop Key stats: 13 Stamina84 Armor
3.18
Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Stamina: 13 × 0.2212 = 2.88 pts
  • Armor: 84 × 0.0036 = 0.30 pts

Rare

13 sources

Lorgus JettNPC drop · 0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
HamhockNPC drop · <0.1% · Stormwind Stockade
Fallen ChampionNPC drop · <0.1% · Scarlet Monastery
Overlord RamtuskNPC drop · <0.1% · Razorfen Kraul
Charlga RazorflankNPC drop · <0.1%
Death Speaker JargbaNPC drop · <0.1%
GelihastNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
All 13 sources
20 in this filtered list
Stormrider's Leather Helm Leather · iLvl 30 · Req. 25 · Dungeon drop Key stats: 13 Stamina84 Armor
3.18
Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Stamina: 13 × 0.2212 = 2.88 pts
  • Armor: 84 × 0.0036 = 0.30 pts

Rare

11 sources

Dark Iron AmbassadorBoss drop · 0.3%
Overlord RamtuskNPC drop · <0.1%
GelihastNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
Aku'maiNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackfathom Deeps
Charlga RazorflankNPC drop · <0.1%
Kam DeepfuryNPC drop · <0.1% · Stormwind Stockade
Dextren WardNPC drop · <0.1%
Interrogator VishasNPC drop · <0.1%
All 11 sources

Item stats from the WoW Forever game files; sources from data collected from the live game. Auction prices are the lowest buyout on the Americas · Normal auction houses, read from Blizzard every hour; pick another region or ruleset under Filters. Which house is which ruleset is matched by size and still being confirmed in game.

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