Rogue specialization

Subtlety Rogue in WoW Forever

Stealth, bleeds and control.

  • Your role: Melee damage
  • Advice for every level to 60
  • Class notes checked

Your character

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Your gear Use my character
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Choose the level you are playing now. The playbook and gear rankings update to match.

Level 45 · Damage in a group

How to play dungeons at level 45

Your combat loop

Press the first one that is ready.

Subtlety’s own loop, from level 10. Before that every Rogue plays the same loop.

Own loop from: Combat level 10Subtlety level 10Assassination level 40

Use Instant Poison on the main hand, Deadly Poison on the off hand. It does 4% more than Instant Poison on both weapons and 3% more than Deadly Poison on both weapons. About even (within 3%): Deadly Poison on the main hand, Instant Poison on the off hand; or Instant Poison on the main hand, Deadly Poison on the off hand, with Rupture before Death Mark.

  1. Shank Rank 2 Every 10 sec

    Use it whenever it is ready, every 10 sec.

    2% of your damage
  2. Ghostly Strike Every 20 sec

    Use it whenever it is ready, every 20 sec.

    4% of your damage
  3. Garrote Rank 4 Keep on target · 18 sec

    Keep it on the target; it lasts 18 sec.

    15% of your damage
  4. Slice and Dice Rank 2 Keep up · combo points

    Keep it up with combo points.

    no damage of its own
  5. Death Mark Rank 1 Keep up · combo points

    Keep it up with combo points.

    16% of your damage
  6. Hemorrhage Filler

    Spend the rest of your energy on it.

    10% of your damage
  7. Instant Poison IV Main hand

    Keep it on your main-hand weapon.

    4% of your damage
  8. Deadly Poison II Off hand

    Keep it on your off-hand weapon.

    7% of your damage
  9. Auto attack All the time

    Your weapon swings on its own. Stay in melee range.

    42% of your damage

The first 30 seconds

When to press each one from the pull. The blue line under a press is the global cooldown (1 sec) or cast it holds: nothing else on the global cooldown can go until it ends, so of two that are ready together the higher one goes first.

All the time
Instant Poison IVDeadly Poison IIAuto attack

How MaxDPS works this out

Talents at level 45

36 points at level 45: the first at level 10, then one every level.

The MaxDPS build at this level, in the game’s talent frame. Click a talent to learn it and right click to unlearn it, as in the game.

Talents
Unspent Talents
Point order: when each point goes in
  1. Opportunity 5/5 · levels 10–14 +2.6% damage
  2. Improved Ambush 3/3 · levels 15–17 not counted here
  3. Dirty Deeds 2/2 · levels 18–19 +3.4% damage
  4. Serrated Blades 3/3 · levels 20–22 +2.5% damage
  5. Premeditation 1/1 · level 23 not counted here
  6. Initiative 1/3 · level 24 +0.7% damage
  7. Ghostly Strike 1/1 · level 25 +15.6% damage
  8. Elusiveness 2/2 · levels 26–27 not counted here
  9. Camouflage 2/3 · levels 28–29 not counted here
  10. Preparation 1/1 · level 30 not counted here
  11. Heightened Senses 2/2 · levels 31–32 not counted here
  12. Setup 1/3 · level 33 not counted here
  13. Hemorrhage 1/1 · level 34 not counted here
  14. Boot Knife 5/5 · levels 35–39 +9.5% damage
  15. Death Mark 1/1 · level 40 not counted here
  16. Malice 5/5 · levels 41–45 +4.8% damage

Every Rogue talent

Preliminary item rankings · Dungeons

Subtlety Rogue gear rankings

Opening strikes, Hemorrhage and bleeds · Level 45 · Calculated defaults

Hunt list
Show gear for

Off hand 327 items · Updating…

Where it comes from
Auction prices from

Materials: . Each reagent counts at the lower of a vendor’s price and its lowest buyout.

Key stats show the stats behind the three largest score contributions, as the game tooltip states them; open an item’s details for every value and source.

Off hand items with imported stats, weighted scores and acquisition sources.
Rank Item Score (pts) Where to get it Actions
1 in this filtered list
Mugg's Jabber Fist weapon · iLvl 47 · Req. 42 · Other drop · Weapon training Key stats: 31.54 Weapon melee DPS5 Agility6 Stamina
85.25
Overlord MuggNPC drop · 32%

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 31.54 × 3.2812 = 49.10 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 82 × 0.3802 = 31.18 pts
  • Agility: 5 × 0.7614 = 3.81 pts
  • Stamina: 6 × 0.1945 = 1.17 pts

Rare · Weapon training — check item requirements

Source

Overlord MuggNPC drop · 32%
2 in this filtered list
Mugg's Crosser Fist weapon · iLvl 47 · Req. 42 · Other drop · Weapon training Key stats: 31.54 Weapon melee DPS5 Strength6 Stamina
83.82
Overlord MuggNPC drop · 27%

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 31.54 × 3.2812 = 49.10 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 82 × 0.3802 = 31.18 pts
  • Strength: 5 × 0.4748 = 2.37 pts
  • Stamina: 6 × 0.1945 = 1.17 pts

Rare · Weapon training — check item requirements

Source

Overlord MuggNPC drop · 27%
3 in this filtered list
Vanquisher's Sword Sword · iLvl 44 · Req. 39* · Quest · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 30 Weapon melee DPS22 Attack power
82.24

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 30 × 3.2812 = 46.70 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 66 × 0.3802 = 25.09 pts
  • Attack power: 22 × 0.4748 = 10.45 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

2 sources

4 in this filtered list
Serpent Slicer Sword · iLvl 49 · Req. 44 · Other drop · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 32.8 Weapon melee DPS
82.24
Emerald Encrusted ChestContainer loot · 1.6%
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 32.8 × 3.2812 = 51.06 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 82 × 0.3802 = 31.18 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

52 sources

Emerald Encrusted ChestContainer loot · 1.6%
Reinforced Steel LockboxContainer loot · 0.1%
Primordial BehemothNPC drop · <0.1% · Maraudon
Searing RocNPC drop · <0.1% · Tanaris
Solid ChestObject loot · <0.1%
Nightmare WhelpNPC drop · <0.1% · Sunken Temple
Ribbly's CronyNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackrock Depths
Gnarled ThistleshrubNPC drop · <0.1% · Tanaris
Anvilrage WardenNPC drop · <0.1% · Blackrock Depths
All 52 sources
5 in this filtered list
Rock on Stick Mace · iLvl 47 · Req. 42* · Quest · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 31.54 Weapon melee DPS4 Strength
82.18

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 31.54 × 3.2812 = 49.10 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 82 × 0.3802 = 31.18 pts
  • Strength: 4 × 0.4748 = 1.90 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

2 sources

6 in this filtered list
Southsea Lamp Mace · iLvl 45 · Req. 40 · Other drop · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 30.43 Weapon melee DPS9 Agility4 Stamina
81.62
Cuergo's Hidden TreasureContainer loot · 2.4%
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 30.43 × 3.2812 = 47.37 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 70 × 0.3802 = 26.61 pts
  • Agility: 9 × 0.7614 = 6.85 pts
  • Stamina: 4 × 0.1945 = 0.78 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

3 sources

Cuergo's Hidden TreasureContainer loot · 2.4%
Captain's ChestObject loot · 2.1% · Tanaris
Pirate's FootlockerContainer loot · 1.1%
7 in this filtered list
Dunston's Ogre Duster Mace · iLvl 44 · Req. 39* · Quest · Alliance only · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 29.81 Weapon melee DPS10 Strength4 Stamina
81.40

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 29.81 × 3.2812 = 46.41 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 77.5 × 0.3802 = 29.47 pts
  • Strength: 10 × 0.4748 = 4.75 pts
  • Stamina: 4 × 0.1945 = 0.78 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

Source

8 in this filtered list
Widowmaker Dagger · iLvl 47 · Req. 42 · Other drop Key stats: 31.58 Weapon melee DPS8 Agility7 Strength
81.39
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 31.58 × 3.2812 = 49.16 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 60 × 0.3802 = 22.81 pts
  • Agility: 8 × 0.7614 = 6.09 pts
  • Strength: 7 × 0.4748 = 3.32 pts

Rare

57 sources

Emerald Encrusted ChestContainer loot · 0.8%
Reinforced Steel LockboxContainer loot · 0.1%
Ahn'Qiraj War Effort SuppliesContainer loot · <0.1%
Jade SludgeNPC drop · <0.1% · The Hinterlands
Cavern ShamblerNPC drop · <0.1% · Maraudon
Solid ChestObject loot · <0.1%
Sul'lithuz AbominationNPC drop · <0.1% · Zul'Farrak
Earthen StonebreakerNPC drop · <0.1% · Uldaman
All 57 sources
9 in this filtered list
Slavecrusher Scepter Mace · iLvl 44 · Req. 39 · Other drop · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 29.81 Weapon melee DPS6 Strength9 Stamina
80.47
Slavecrusher GroxNPC drop · 31%

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 29.81 × 3.2812 = 46.41 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 77.5 × 0.3802 = 29.47 pts
  • Strength: 6 × 0.4748 = 2.85 pts
  • Stamina: 9 × 0.1945 = 1.75 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

Source

Slavecrusher GroxNPC drop · 31%
10 in this filtered list
Shovelphlange's Mining Axe Axe · iLvl 40 · Req. 35 · Other drop · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 27.32 Weapon melee DPS11 Attack power7 Strength
80.16
Digmaster ShovelphlangeBoss drop · 16% · Badlands
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 27.32 × 3.2812 = 42.53 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 76.5 × 0.3802 = 29.09 pts
  • Attack power: 11 × 0.4748 = 5.22 pts
  • Strength: 7 × 0.4748 = 3.32 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

Source

Digmaster ShovelphlangeBoss drop · 16% · Badlands
11 in this filtered list
Legionnaire's Sword Sword · iLvl 43 · Req. 38 · Vendor · Horde only · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 29.26 Weapon melee DPS8 Strength3 Stamina
79.97
Kelm HargunthVendor · 7g 48s 21c · The Barrens

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 29.26 × 3.2812 = 45.55 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 79 × 0.3802 = 30.04 pts
  • Strength: 8 × 0.4748 = 3.80 pts
  • Stamina: 3 × 0.1945 = 0.58 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

Source

Kelm HargunthVendor · 7g 48s 21c · The Barrens
12 in this filtered list
Protector's Sword Sword · iLvl 43 · Req. 38 · Vendor · Alliance only · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 29.26 Weapon melee DPS8 Strength3 Stamina
79.97
Illiyana MoonblazeVendor · 6g 35s 98c · Ashenvale

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 29.26 × 3.2812 = 45.55 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 79 × 0.3802 = 30.04 pts
  • Strength: 8 × 0.4748 = 3.80 pts
  • Stamina: 3 × 0.1945 = 0.58 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

Source

Illiyana MoonblazeVendor · 6g 35s 98c · Ashenvale
13 in this filtered list
Jhordy's Misplaced Screwdriver Dagger · iLvl 45 · Req. 40 · Vendor · Reputation required Key stats: 30.26 Weapon melee DPS9 Agility6 Strength
78.67
RettrickVendor · 9g 46s 14c · Tanaris

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 30.26 × 3.2812 = 47.11 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 57.5 × 0.3802 = 21.86 pts
  • Agility: 9 × 0.7614 = 6.85 pts
  • Strength: 6 × 0.4748 = 2.85 pts

Rare · Reputation required — check item requirements

Source

RettrickVendor · 9g 46s 14c · Tanaris
14 in this filtered list
I'lalai Flayer Axe · iLvl 42 · Req. 37* · Quest · Horde only · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 28.65 Weapon melee DPS3 Agility4 Strength
78.67

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 28.65 × 3.2812 = 44.60 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 74.5 × 0.3802 = 28.32 pts
  • Agility: 3 × 0.7614 = 2.28 pts
  • Strength: 4 × 0.4748 = 1.90 pts
  • Stamina: 8 × 0.1945 = 1.56 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

15 in this filtered list
Shortsword of Vengeance Sword · iLvl 47 · Req. 42 · Other drop · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 31.67 Weapon melee DPS
78.20
Emerald Encrusted ChestContainer loot · 2%
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 31.67 × 3.2812 = 49.30 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 76 × 0.3802 = 28.90 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

50 sources

Emerald Encrusted ChestContainer loot · 2%
Box of GoodiesContainer loot · 1.8%
Jade SludgeNPC drop · <0.1% · The Hinterlands
Haldarr TricksterNPC drop · <0.1% · Azshara
Twilight Fire GuardNPC drop · <0.1% · Searing Gorge
Dunemaul WarlockNPC drop · <0.1% · Tanaris
Nightmare WhelpNPC drop · <0.1% · Sunken Temple
Primordial BehemothNPC drop · <0.1% · Maraudon
Highvale ScoutNPC drop · <0.1% · The Hinterlands
Sul'lithuz SandcrawlerNPC drop · <0.1% · Zul'Farrak
All 50 sources
16 in this filtered list
The Shatterer Mace · iLvl 47 · Req. 42 · Crafted · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 31.67 Weapon melee DPS
78.20
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house Materials about

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 31.67 × 3.2812 = 49.30 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 76 × 0.3802 = 28.90 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

Source

17 in this filtered list
Twilight Forgehammer Mace · iLvl 46 · Req. 41 · Other drop · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 31 Weapon melee DPS
77.73

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 31 × 3.2812 = 48.26 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 77.5 × 0.3802 = 29.47 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

Source

18 in this filtered list
Nordic Longshank Sword · iLvl 43 · Req. 38 · Dungeon drop · Weapon training for some races Key stats: 29.32 Weapon melee DPS8 Agility5 Stamina
77.23
BaelogBoss drop · 8.8% · Uldaman

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 29.32 × 3.2812 = 45.65 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 64.5 × 0.3802 = 24.52 pts
  • Agility: 8 × 0.7614 = 6.09 pts
  • Stamina: 5 × 0.1945 = 0.97 pts

Rare · Weapon training for some races — check item requirements

Source

BaelogBoss drop · 8.8% · Uldaman
19 in this filtered list
Satyr's Lash Dagger · iLvl 50 · Req. 45 · Dungeon drop Key stats: 33.24 Weapon melee DPS5 Agility
77.04
Lord VyletongueNPC drop · 54% · Maraudon

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 33.24 × 3.2812 = 51.75 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 56.5 × 0.3802 = 21.48 pts
  • Agility: 5 × 0.7614 = 3.81 pts

Rare

Source

Lord VyletongueNPC drop · 54% · Maraudon
20 in this filtered list
Gut Ripper Dagger · iLvl 45 · Req. 40 · Other drop Key stats: 33.89 Weapon melee DPS
75.95
Galgann FirehammerNPC drop · 1.2% · Uldaman
Alliance: Horde: None on the auction house

Score breakdown

  • Weapon melee DPS: 33.89 × 3.2812 = 52.76 pts
  • Weapon damage per swing: 61 × 0.3802 = 23.19 pts

Epic

28 sources

Galgann FirehammerNPC drop · 1.2% · Uldaman
Fungal OozeNPC drop · <0.1%
Southsea KidnapperNPC drop · <0.1% · Tanaris
Deeprot TanglerNPC drop · <0.1% · Maraudon
Zukk'ash WorkerNPC drop · <0.1% · Feralas
Saturated OozeNPC drop · <0.1% · Sunken Temple
Cavern ShamblerNPC drop · <0.1% · Maraudon
Constrictor VineNPC drop · <0.1% · Maraudon
Enraged Feral ScarNPC drop · <0.1% · Feralas
Sandfury Witch DoctorNPC drop · <0.1% · Zul'Farrak
All 28 sources

Item stats from the WoW Forever game files; sources from data collected from the live game. Auction prices are the lowest buyout on the Americas · Normal auction houses, read from Blizzard every hour; pick another region or ruleset under Filters. Which house is which ruleset is matched by size and still being confirmed in game.

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